Kayla Moore Hearing – February 5, 2021, 8 pm Eastern

Transcript: Hearing on the Case of Kayla Moore


  • Rapporteur Prof. Priscilla Ocen
  • Commissioner Mr. Arturo Fournier Facio
  • Ms. Maria Moore, sister of Kayla Moore (via video)
  • Mr Adante Pointer, attorney for the Moore family

Priscilla Ocen  00:00

Good afternoon, everyone. Good evening to those of you on the east coast and I guess it’s good evening to those of us here on the West Coast as well. Welcome to the hearings of the International Commission of Inquiry on systemic racist police violence against people of African descent in the United States. These hearings are a process by which witnesses can present accounts of the unjustified killings and maimings of unarmed Black people and Black people more generally, by police officers in the United States before an international panel of human rights experts. We will now begin the hearing in the case of Kayla Moore. My name is Priscilla Ocen, and I am the rapporteur for today’s hearing. Presiding over this hearing is Commissioner Arturo Fournier, who is a commissioner coming to us from Costa Rica. The witnesses for today’s hearing are attorney Adante Pointer, who assisted in representing the family. But before we hear from attorney Pointer, we will we will see a video recording from Maria Moore who is Kayla Moore’s sister. There will be 50 minutes for this hearing. Witnesses will testify, followed by a period of questions from our Commissioner, Commissioner Fournier. I will note the 30 minute mark as well as the 45 minute mark. To just kind of keep us on track, not to be rude or to interrupt anyone. So now I’d like to ask our commission staff. To begin the video of Maria Moore, Kayla Moore’s sister. Thank you.

Maria Moore (via video)  01:45

Hi, everyone. My name is Maria Moore, and I’m here to talk about my sister Kayla Moore. Kayla was killed in Berkeley, February 12 2013, when her roommate called for a wellness check. So Kayla had been living in Berkeley, all her life, you know, she was able to find affordable housing in San Francisco. But that she was too far from home. And you know, my dad was so intent on keeping a watchful eye on her that when she got her section 8 home in Berkeley, we’re just so happy to have her. Within six months of her being in Berkeley, she was killed by the police. So a wellness check, unfortunately, involves the response of not only local crisis, but the police, and that is something that we desperately need to change. There’s no reason at all like, cops need to be counselors, with people in crisis, because we know that they don’t have the tools, and they don’t want to have to de escalate and to take the time with someone in crisis. And that’s what happened. It wasn’t just because, you know, Kayla was was in distress. It was because she was Black, it was because she was transgender. That led to her death. They didn’t understand her. You know, when she opened the door, she thought that officer was someone else. She thought she was talking to different person. She didn’t understand that the the information that was being provided to her because what they were telling her was that she was being arrested. Her roommate calls for wellness check, and the officers who arrived say no, we’re arresting you on a warrant.

So how did they find that? They actually did a warrant check before they went and talked to her. And what they found was a warrant, an invalid warrant for someone with Kayla’s birth name. But there was an incorrect date of birth. It was someone that was 28 years older than Kayla. And everything was not is not a correct warrant, and it was invalid and they knew it. But they still used it. So he told Kayla, you have warrants and we’re taking you to jail. And Kayla was adamant that she did not have this warrant. That was actually from another county as well. So she turned to make a phone call. She said I’ll get to, I’ll take care of it, and she turns to make a phone call. That’s when the officer grabbed her and Kayla pulled back. And within seconds, six officers were on top of her, tried her to what was called wrap top. If you are familiar with it, you basically hogtie the person. And the wrap device is not for people who are overweight. You know, Kayla was a big girl. So with six offers on top of her putting her in this torture device, do they realize at some point she had stopped moving. Now, granted, they had to make sure they were okay they’re checking on each other, but they failed to check on Kayla.

Because her last breath, her last words were get off me, I can’t breathe. And they ignored her, her cries for help. And when they realized that she was dead, they did not attempt to do CPR, they would have done for cops. They didn’t do the mouth to mouth. And you know, that’s so important to get the air to, to the brain. And, you know, it’s part of their training. And they didn’t do that.

It’s been a long, eight years, we’re still fighting for change. And we will get it right. We’re hopeful, confident, this will happen. And it’s not going to happen because of the city of Berkeley or the police chief who’s horrible and needs to resign immediately. Once this is because the community wants this and that the community has come together and decided to create their own specialized care units. The specialized care unit will be equipped with firefighters and you know, not police officers, but someone with an ambulance because a mental health crisis is a medical crisis, someone’s having a heart attack, you would call for an ambulance. Someone is in a mental health crisis you should it call for an ambulance and not cops. So and what we’ve learned, especially in Oakland is that mobile crisis teams don’t feel comfortable with the cops. So we are utilizing the fire department as a way to make sure that the scene is safe and that the individual is safe. And I feel hopeful because this is exactly what we need to do. I hope you guys understand how important it is. Especially if you are caring for a loved one who is mentally disabled, to understand what resources are out there for you, what’s available, and that you do have other options if you do have a loved one or friend, a neighbor, who is suffering and having a mental health crisis. So my dream world if Kayla would have lived, she would  in the streets protesting for Black lives matter. She would be out there with her girls just tearing it up and you know, going door to door, she, how she was, she did not give up. So, I’m going to end with this. When you say her name, you give her voice. When you say her name. You give that voice a life. When you say her name, you’re demanding justice for her death. And when you say her name, the community understands that calling the police on a Black woman can be a death sentence. My sister is Kayla Moore. Had she been alive, she would be cooking dinner. watching her favorite TV crime shows. It’s Kayla, always love to give, so I’m going to say goodbye to you.

Priscilla Ocen  09:52

What a powerful statement from Maria Moore, Kayla Moore’s sister. We think, we’ve been joined now by attorney Adante Pointer. Mr. Pointer, please express our condolences to Ms. Moore and our thanks for taking the time to record that statement and to humanize her sister, when the state so often tries to dehumanize Black folks who are killed by agents of the state, so we thank you. We thank her for her courage and for her strength in recording that statement and sharing her sister’s story with us. Commissioner Fournier, I’d like to now turn to our witness, attorney Adante Pointer. Mr. Pointer, can you confirm your name? For the record?

Adante Pointer  10:50

Yes, my name is Adante Pointer, A D A N T E P O I N T E R.

Priscilla Ocen  10:56

Thank you very much, Mr. Pointer. And do you attest or swear that the testimony that you provide to this commission will be true to the best of your knowledge and belief?

Adante Pointer  11:08

Yes, I do.

Priscilla Ocen  11:09

Thank you, Mr. Pointer, you can proceed with your comments.

Adante Pointer  11:15

When I first heard and then contacted the family, about the death of Kayla Moore, the family’s pain and grief, as you just heard, Kayla’s ister was all so real. But it was also the type of pain and grief that sparked outrage in myself, as well as in many in the city of Berkeley, City of Berkeley is thought to be a very progressive place, thought to be a very inclusive place, thought of as being a place where the community has fought for and won over the respect and cooperation of police officers so that they would engage in a more peaceful and constitutionally consistent policing. But when we delved into what took place here, what was evident from reviewing the facts of the record, is that this was not a situation where officers followed their policy, followed their training, followed good judgment. Instead, this was a situation where we had a woman who was in the midst of a mental health crisis, but that in and of itself did not mean that her rights were abandoned, or their her rights were not to be respected. Instead, what we saw take place here, in reviewing the record is, the cops received a very basic run of the mill call about essentially a domestic disturbance going on. And the person who was reporting that styled themselves or, you know, told the operator that they were the roommate of Kayla, and that they thought Kayla needed to be 5150d, which essentially means to be detained on a mental health hold, and that Kayla had not been taking her meds.

So the basis of what we have going on here is the police come to the scene of Kayla’s apartment, where she was lawfully present. And when they arrived, they did not hear, see or receive any information at that point in time that Kayla was presenting a threat to anyone. They did not hear an argument. They did not see any signs of a physical altercation. No one was injured, no one claimed to have been injured. And when they approached Kayla’s apartment, which was in an apartment building, and they knocked on the door, Kayla came to the door. So there was no resistance during this situation. Instead, there was compliance. And Kayla, when she came to the door, answered the officers questions while standing in the doorway, the threshold of her home. The officers beckoned her out of the threshold of the doorway to her home. And she found herself on the landing essentially, right in front of her apartment on the landing. And in talking to the two assembled Berkeley police officers, they questioned her as to what was going on, what was taking place. And it was apparent to them by way of her responses, that she was in the midst of some sort of mental health crisis.

But that in and of itself, just because you are experiencing a mental health crisis, does not mean that that empowers officers to use force against you. Nor does it empower officers to remove you from your home. The standards for doing that under the law here in California under a 5150. Mental Health hold, is that you either have to be a threat to others, a threat to yourself, or incapable of providing the most basic needs and essentiald for yourself, ie if you’re standing out in the cold and you’re unclothed, or you’re ready to run out in traffic, or you have no place to stay, and so therefore, it is in the best interest of yourself as well as the public, that the police detain you voluntarily and bring you into custody. Once again, Kayla was at her own home, she was essentially minding her business, there is no law that I am aware of that says you cannot be in your own home, minding your business, being delusional or not. And but as long as you’re not harming anyone threatening harm, or doing those things, suicidal acts or things of that nature, which means an officer has a right to then remove you from your home and bring you into custody. But that’s exactly what happened here. And during the course of talking to Kayla, the Berkeley police officers, were asking her questions, and she was responding in a way that was consistent with her not recognizing them as being police officers. She wasn’t quite sure what was taking place. But she was scared, and she was afraid. And she was being confronted by agents of the state. And she wanted, once they essentially had told her to come outside and it became apparent to her that they were going to arrest her on this, quote unquote, warrant. She wanted to and asked, hey, this doesn’t seem right, this warrant is for a person that’s not me, I don’t have a warrant.

And lo and behold, the record showed upon investigation, that the record that the warrant was for a person that was 20 years her senior, same name. But it was out of a different county, where, essentially, not in and from, Berkeley, Berkeley police officers are trained, that they are supposed to confirm and verify that the warrant is in fact valid and fits the description of the person that they’re going to take in on said warrant. When the Berkeley police officers went to do that, dispatch gave them the information that I just told you, that the warrant did not match her age, and was not from in the same city. And yet the officers still persisted in wanting to detain Kayla. This is important for two reasons. As I mentioned, the warrant was not on its face consistent with who she was. And on top of that, what was also important is that the officers are trained in California that when you’re dealing with a person who is suffering through a mental health crisis, and is in need of medical help, not punitive, or criminal punishment, that you’re not to threaten them with arrest, because that does not de-escalate the situation that is only throwing gasoline on a fire. And that is exactly what the officers proceeded to do. They threatened her with arrest on a warrant that she didn’t believe was true, in which she requested, more, perhaps more rational and more common sense than the officers was to say, hey, I want to place a call to make sure that this warrant is really for me, because this is not true. What the officers did at that point, as opposed to continuing to talk and use effective communication, which is what they’re trained to do. based upon police officer standards and training here in California. They ignored their training. And instead, the two officers looked at each other made a signal or a sign. And one of the officers proceeded to grab Kayla unannounced, no warning.

No one asked for consent, they grabbed her about her arms and tried to yank her out of her apartment so that they can then place her in handcuffs. Foreseeably, the result was that Kayla tried to pull away from their grasp and into her home. And there was no imminent threat or danger here as she had not threatened anyone. She hadn’t made any mention of doing harm to herself. Once again it is important to understand she was at home. The officers then proceeded to ratchet up their use of force as opposed to just maintaining a perimeter at her front door, or continuing to use some form of communication, they elected to use force. Kayla was not a slight person. Kayla was relatively large for her physicality. And so when she pulled back into the home, the officers who refused to relent went into the home with her, and they fell down onto the floor, partially on a mattress, which the mattress was over, or essentially underneath Kayla’s chest. So she was partially laying on the mattress and partially on the floor of her own apartment. When officers called for backup and assistance, four other officers came to the scene. And they proceeded to push, pull, compress Kayla’s body onto the ground, which led to her being in physical distress and caused her, as for anyone, to have a greater need for oxygen, because of the physicality of what was taking place. Them trying to force her to submit to their authority in her home under the guise of a warrant, a supposed warrant that was not valid. And then upon further litigation, saying, well, we were just using the warrant as the guise to get her to comply. And what we really wanted to do was bring her in for medical assistance under a mental health hold. There was a problem with this analysis or this ruse, because the officers are trained once again, not to threaten people with arrest. And they’re also trained that they’re supposed to complete their analysis as it relates to their evaluation as to whether or not she qualified to be detained under mental health hold, and then call the fire department to arrange for transportation.

Instead of doing either of those things, they abandoned this supposed a mental health evaluation and piled on top of her back. Officers are trained and know very well, that a person who is obese, a person who has a protruding belly, if they are placed in the prone position and pressure is applied to their back, it will cause them to have difficulty breathing, because their diaphragm is constrained and compressed. And therefore, if you’re at the same time, pulling, prodding and essentially wrestling, if you want to use that term with this person, it will not only increase their need for oxygen, which they will not be able to meet because they’re unable to breathe, because of the pressure being applied to their back. It could send a person into respiratory distress. Lo and behold, that is what happened here. And as opposed to officers relenting because Kayla was not armed, she had not reached for any weapons, as opposed to officers doing what they had done on other occasions when they had contact with Kayla and they wanted to bring her in on a mental health hold or to or to examine her using family contacts that they had in order to de escalate the situation. As opposed to bringing in the friend who had made the call and using that person as an intermediary, to de-escalate the situation, or to be a go between. They told that they put that person in arrest, kicked him out of the apartment. And here’s Kayla face alone on the floor of her apartment, with officers piled on top of her. During the course of the case, as I mentioned before the officers’ accounts have changed from the amount of force they used, the way in which they used the force and the basis for the force.

It went from being a warrant to then saying we’re using the warrant as a ruse in order to do a 5150 hold. It went from being we were holding her down because she was bucking and she was acting wildly. And so we had to use our force to hold her limbs down and we were pressing down her upper back with our body and somebody laid another officer six foot three 250 plus pounds, laid across her legs. Once we got into litigation, they understood that that in and of itself was wrong. They then relented and tried to minimize the force by saying well, I just used my hand to hold down our shoulder. We were just holding legs out or ankles. Nevertheless, what they had was that they did try to put her in a wrap device. And for people who may understand that is essentially like putting somebody in a fruit roll up or rolling someone up in a burrito, but it’s a it’s like a mat that you’re rolled into. And so it’s like a full body straight jacket is another way to put it. But that device is not proper and should not be used on a person of Kayla’s size. But yet, they wanted they consisted, they persisted in doing that, despite Kayla saying that she couldn’t breathe. They were so committed to putting her in this wrap device, and imposing their will through force on her that they ignored the respiratory distress that she was under. And that, as opposed to them, understanding that if she was kicking and flailing that was akin to a fish out of water, who was struggling to breathe, versus the way in which they approached it, as this is someone who is fighting our authority.

There was no imminent danger here. If these officers would have used common sense, Kayla would still be alive today, in my opinion, instead, the officers commitment to imposing their will to detaining her on a faulty warrant to abandoning their training in their policies about how they’re supposed to go about conducting mental health holds. Refusing to involve intermediaries who could have helped de escalating the situation, violating the sanctity of her home. Kayla died on her stomach with without the dignity that anyone deserves, even an animal, because after she, after they noticed that she was no longer responsive, comments were made about her sexual orientation. As Kayla was wearing a dress of sorts, and it had rose up, you know, towards her waist. And as opposed to these officers going and getting the appropriate equipment in order to do CPR, they sat there and they talked about her in her sexual orientation, and expressed some hesitancy of performing life saving measures. This is the way Kayla died in the floor of her own home alone and afraid, looking for help. Instead, she was met with brutality. She was met with indignity. And she has left an impact on the Berkeley community and certainly her family which you have seen in that video.

We then filed the lawsuit and went forward in federal court. The police officers, as far as we know, were never disciplined. The district attorney never filed any charges, criminal charges against these officers and the federal judge cut the case, dismissed many causes of action that were brought some under the Fourth Amendment of the United States Constitution. Others under the ADA Americans with Disabilities Act. And then also state based California based causes of action under the Bane act for assault and battery and things of that nature. The district courts saw fit to say that these officers were essentially entitled to qualified immunity, that if they’re, that they were entitled to use force, and then if they had made any mistakes, they were the type of mistakes that the court was ready to excuse away. Needless to say, my own personal professional opinion is that was completely out of line improper and resulted in Kayla’s killers, walking free with impunity without any criminal, civil or employment, workplace justice. That is the sad, tragic and fully preventable story of Kayla Moore. And we look forward to her receiving the justice she so much deserves. Thank you.

Priscilla Ocen  29:48

Thank you, Mr. Pointer, for that comprehensive description of of events. I will want to turn this over to our Commissioner, Commissioner Fournier, to determine if he has any questions. I’ll just note that we’re about 30 minutes into this hearing, we have about 20, 19 more minutes to go. So, Commissioner, please keep that in mind as you ask your questions. I’ll turn it over to you. Thank you.

Arturo Fournier Facio  30:22

Thank you Good evening. Before before anything, of course, as the rapporteur did, please give our sympathy to the family to Maria, for her grievances. And our heartfelt condolences. Yes. And thank you for your explanation. You, you already gave information of many things I was going to ask you regarding the use of force and many other things. Nevertheless, I have a couple of questions. I heard a radio information by a person under the name Lucy Kang. And she says that they didn’t refer to her as human. In this case, do you know what she was speaking about?

Adante Pointer  31:19

Yes, there was reports that the officers during the course of this situation after they had seen that Kayla was in respiratory distress, having difficulty breathing, and had lost some consciousness they had made refer to her as an it, as an inanimate object, as something that was less than human. And, you know, that was something that none of the officers are willing to admit to.

Priscilla Ocen  32:04

And you’re muted,  Commissioner.

Arturo Fournier Facio  32:14

Sorry. I thought it was. Can you hear me?

Adante Pointer  32:21

Yes, I can.

Arturo Fournier Facio  32:22

All right, because as somebody silent me, well, you spoke that the word to officers at the beginning, and they request for backup. And four more came, so six police officers. In criminal law here in Costa Rica, we have something that probably you do have also in the US or the California state, that the means used by the police or to defend yourself should be equivalent to those that are opposing you. If you are threat with a gun. Of course you can draw your gun. Do you have something of the sword? Because it doesn’t seem reasonable that for just one person, and six people could not hold her and restrain her in case she was violent, which you said she was not, of course.

Adante Pointer  33:29

Yes. Most of the proportionality as relates to the force that officers use, to use your example, you know, if someone does not have a weapon, and is resisting police officers, that does not entitle the officer to pull their gun and shoot them dead. Instead, there has to be some proportionality to the force that’s used. And in order to justify, in order for it to be reasonable, which was the law here at that point in time. So by its very nature, in my opinion, when you have six, supposedly well trained police officers who add in their equipment of bulletproof vests, and boots, and handcuffs, and pepper spray, and things of that nature. It did not seem to be a situation that required six police officers to go hands on with Kayla, especially when you have a person like Kayla who hadn’t threatened anybody had not expressed any intent to use force and had only expressed her disbelief that there was in fact a warrant out for her arrest.

Arturo Fournier Facio  35:02

You said that she was in respiratory distress. Was that the cause of the death?

Adante Pointer  35:12

Well, that is for you if you look at both sides, but for my opinion, there is no dispute or if there was a dispute, it was resolved by the evidence Kayla experienced respiratory distress. And something that any one of us here on this call could experience, if you’re restrained in a way in which your diaphragm is not allowed to expand and contract and essentially get air and at the same time, you are being put into a physical tussle, or you are exerting a lot of energy because you are being pulled and pressed down and you’re excited. You have oxygen hunger, your you need more oxygen, in order to keep your body essentially in rhythm. And they deprived her of the ability to do that, by the way in which she was restrained. Adding to that she did have some narcotics on board, not a large amount. But even still with that she was functioning just fine. Before the officers arrived, she also had an enlarged heart. But keep in mind, she was functioning just fine before the officers arrived, meaning she was breathing fine. They didn’t say that she was heaving or having difficulty breathing, before they went hands on and restrained her to the ground. The the city of Berkeley want and their experts wanted to blame this death on what is called excited delirium. Which in my personal and professional opinion is junk science. It has been debunked over and over again. And then is a phenomenon that when I took the deposition of their expert, Dr. Bill Key, who sought to substantiate this phenomenon that is not recognized by the American Medical Association, and is based on studies that do not replicate or duplicate and expressly do not try to incorporate what takes place in the field between people who are dealing with police officers and are being compressed and have knees in their back or focused pressure.

Instead, it’s junk science or theory, that is based upon people laying down who are in good health, who do not have any narcotics on board, who do not have asthma, who do not have a protruding stomach or belly. And they are, and weight is gradually applied in a non focused manner on their back. That is the still the phenomenon that they tried to attribute Kayla’s death to. But one other very important factor as to why this idea of excited delirium is just junk science. And that is that there is no case that I’m aware of, and none that their expert could point to, cite, where excited delirium is happening in any circumstance where the police were not involved. So you could have all of the same factors going on, in terms of drugs on board, in terms of having the physical and medical conditions that Kayla had. And that and people that he cannot cite to one death that he was aware of, through a study or through his own experience, that would be considered excited delirium. The only ones that are able to be cited to are situations where the police are involved. And that in and of its nature shows me that this idea of excited delirium does not hold any credibility. Thank you.

Arturo Fournier Facio  39:21

Right. And then another question. I don’t know if it was you, I read that a friend of Ms. Moore phoned the police directly. Do you, what is the system that you have there? Your phone 911 or your phone, the police? Why not a psychiatry institution?

Adante Pointer  39:47

Well, the sad thing here, the failure of our society here, the failure of our system here is that those resources are not available to family members to friends, or the person in distress. You are not able to directly call a psychiatry or a mental health unit at in most cities and most towns in America, in the city of Berkeley, they do have, or they did have a mobile crisis unit that would have been tasked with coming out to respond to what was taking place. The problem is, they do not put, and by that, I mean, the city of Berkeley did not make this service a priority. And by that, I mean, they did not fund. They did not fund this mobile crisis unit, give it a budget to where the mobile crisis unit is available 24 hours a day, seven days a week. Instead, the city of Berkeley acted as if mental crises are happening within the times as if it was a store. So the mobile crisis unit is only works up until 10 o’clock at night. So if you have a mental health crises at 10:01 pm, you, the only people you can call are the police. As I think we all know here, mental health does not operate on a schedule. It does not clock into a shift in clock out on this shift at a particular time. And so that is a very significant failure from the city of Berkeley, and the American justice system. Those resources should be available to people 24/7, 24 hours a day, seven days a week.

Arturo Fournier Facio  41:49

Because do you have any sort of explanation regarding Black women, particularly transgender Black woman, uniquely, in fact tainted by police violence?

Adante Pointer  42:04

Well, anecdotally, if you were to go on to just using your phone or watching the news, here in the United States, Black women are particularly vulnerable and targeted, and have a high degree disproportionate use of force used against them by male police officers who oftentimes outweigh or out trained, out muscled, and usually have even more than one police officer. They’re putting force or using force against a Black woman. So we know that by just looking at what is in front of us, that society, this society is prepared to agree to allow and to authorize excessive force against Black women. And we see that just as recently, as last week, there was a nine year old girl who was crying for her father. And as opposed to the police de-escalating the situation, as any parent or teacher would with a little kid. They resorted to using pepper spray, placing the girl in handcuffs, terrorizing her. And unfortunately, although she was nine, which is very, very young, we’ve seen that happen from nine to 90 years old here in the United States.

Arturo Fournier Facio  43:46

Regardless that I heard the news. Yes, of course. Do you think the racism expresses itself worse against women, Black women than Black men?

Adante Pointer  44:04

I think racism has no favorites. I think racism in all of its most hideous forms, comes out and targets those who they think that they can get away with abusing. If it was a nine year old boy, they would have, they may have done the same thing. But what we do know is that from a if you quote call yourself a civilized society, men should respect women in a way to where you don’t do those type of things. I can only say that the racism that is embedded in United States law enforcement seems to enjoy inflicting pain upon Black women.

Arturo Fournier Facio  44:54

So could it be explained by –?

Priscilla Ocen  44:57

My apologies Commissioner. I just want Note that we’re at the 45 minute mark. So we have about five minutes or a little less remaining in the hearing. Apologies for the interruption. Please continue.

Arturo Fournier Facio  45:12

Right. So I was asking you, if there is any evidence, or what do you think about it? Could it be because of her sexual orientation, that she was a transgender, that they acted the worst in this case?

Adante Pointer  45:32

It certainly cannot be ruled out. And given some of the comments that were made, and the actions that they took in terms of not doing mouth to mouth resuscitation when they saw her in medical distress, referring to Kayla, as it, you know, drawing people’s attention to the way in which she was dressed, that those are factors that cannot be ignored. And certainly factors that I think, should be taken into account as the way in which they decided to use force didn’t respect her rights. And then when she needed their help the most, they didn’t offer it. They didn’t provide it. And, and in terms of helping to save her life, so I certainly think that those are all factors that are at play here that led to this tragic death.

Arturo Fournier Facio  46:24

A couple of more questions. Do officers need to use the body camera in California or not?

Adante Pointer  46:35

There is no statewide law in the state of California that mandates officers use body cameras. That is part of the problem here. It should be a mandatory requirement that all police officers wear body cameras, and that those cameras are on anytime they are going to contact a member of the public. Instead, what we have in our state is each individual police department can opt to have body cameras or not. And they make their own laws as rules as to when the cameras have to come on, how long they have to stay on, another an officer can turn it off. Most police officers, most police departments do not have any punishment or discipline for police officers that failed to use the body cameras, or use them improperly or cover up the lens when they have body cameras. So this is a very,

Arturo Fournier Facio  47:47

There was not a video.

Adante Pointer  47:50

There was not a video. I wish there was

Arturo Fournier Facio  47:55

And were they held accountable at any extent. The officers?

Adante Pointer  48:03

No, there was no formal accountability. And what I mean by that they didn’t face as far as I know any, any negative impact from their jobs. No criminal was filed against them. And no, our civil case did not force them to face any civil penalties. The only accountability that these officers received were as a result of the community’s pressure and continuing to say Kayla’s name and continuing to attend the city council meetings and going to the police department and making what took place here public. That was the only accountability.

Arturo Fournier Facio  48:49

One last question due to time. You said they had a warrant, addressed to other person or for other reasons. The warrant is like the ticket that you have as an officer to detain somebody or in extreme cases to go inside their houses. How was this justified in court?

Adante Pointer  49:16

The judge, well, first of all, Kayla was, officers had gotten Kayla to step right outside of her threshold while they were talking to her. So she was not inside of her home right when this took place when they decided to use force. The second thing was under the laws here and the way the judge interpreted it. He said that the warrant was close enough to Kayla, to justify them detaining her. So the judge used his discretion to justify this brutal assault

Arturo Fournier Facio  49:54

It was inside her house. Was there any witnesses?

Adante Pointer  49:59

The officers made the only non police officer witness leave the scene.

Arturo Fournier Facio  50:08

Right. So I think attorney Ocen we don’t have time.

Priscilla Ocen  50:13

Yes, we are out, we are over time as a matter of fact. So at this point, I’d like to thank attorney Pointer for, for for being here for taking time out of your busy schedule, to continue to say the name of Kayla Moore, to talk to the world about the injustice that happened in Berkeley, that happened to her, to her community and to her family. Again, please extend our sincerest condolences and extend our gratitude to her sister, Maria Moore, for contributing that video talking about her sister. At this point, we will conclude the hearing of Kayla Moore. We will take about an eight minute break and resume at 6pm Pacific, 9pm. Eastern with the case of Momodou Sisay. Again, we’ll stand in recess. Thank you, Mr. Pointer.

Arturo Fournier Facio  51:10

Thank you, Attorney Pointer. Thank you, everyone.

Adante Pointer  51:14

I appreciate you guys taking this up. I’ll show that and I’ll relay your your feelings to the family. Thank you.